Pope Benedict Should Be Careful Re What People Think He is Saying
Pro 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 11:25-26 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
1Co 3:18-20 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Pope Benedict (http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=70993) has aroused wrath in the Muslim world because he used as the centerpiece of his recent address, the philosophy of a medieval King of Constantinople in Turkey Manuel Paleologos (1350-1425), who he quoted as saying that everything new that the Muslim faith has brought to the world is evil. Benedict's address centered on his agreement with the King's contention that forced conversions are ungodly because God is reasonable, and expects men to behave reasonably, and because reasonable men are what is required to convert reasonable unbelievers.
Although Benedict himself did not attack Muslims on the grounds that everything new that the Muslim religion has brought to the world is evil, at the beginning and also at the end of his address, he referenced the medieval King who said this about the Muslims; at the beginning he quoted this king saying this; and throughout his address, Pope Benedict treated this medieval King, Paleologos, as an icon of wisdom.
Thus it is not hard to see why Muslims would be offended by Pope Benedict's remarks; and the explanation given by the German government that the Muslims merely misunderstood Pope Benedict is seems insufficient.
If leaders go about lionizing historical figures who condemned the Muslim religion, all the while quoting the condemnations of the Muslim religion made by these historical figures--even if these leaders center their talks not on the condemnations of Islam that issued from these ancient figures but rather on fine points related to the philosophies of these historical anti-Muslim figures--then one would expect Muslims to become offended.
Perhaps the Pope did not intend to be cozy with Muslims.If Pope Benedict had wished to be diplomatic, he could have gotten the same message across by saying something like: I value how truths made known to man in Christianity are also found in Islam and exert positive impacts through being part of Islam, and, with regards to the doctrines found in Islam that are not a part of Christianity, I hope Muslims can come to realize that if all of the thoughts God has regarding the world were to be put into books, the Vatican library itself would not have enough room for all of these books.
Instead Pope Benedict, while attempting to show that a certain reasonableness, and love of reasonableness are an intrinsic part of God's nature, read several paragraphs that could be interpreted as manifesting his opposition to the idea, that most of God's thoughts words and actions are not recorded in human scriptures.
The fact remains, that many persons have sensed while reading Isaiah, and Psalms, and the gospel of St. John, the divine inspiration of at least portions of these books of the Bible. In these Books we read:
Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to usward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Psa 139:17-18 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The fact we are told that God is hid, means the writers of these scriptures, whom we estimate to be divinely inspired, want us to think of God as being partially hid.
My estimate is that what the world needs now, is for the religious of the world to all come to realize that the scriptures of their religions only present a part of the mind of God, and to proceed to live in peace friendliness and neighborliness like good little professor's kids from tolerant liberal university neighborhoods. My estimate is that in the past the world has plunged into fruitless unnecessary violence because its leaders and people have failed to meditate upon how the mind of God is greater than any book inspired by God. Yet Pope Benedict in his speech, delivers words that many would understandably interpret, as opposed to the idea that the mind of God is greater and larger than human books about God.
Pope Benedict's words give the impression that his doctrine is that God should be considered to be an "authentic mirror" of what we humans believe is true and good. Yet Catholic and Protestant Christians throughout the ages, have believed that what a human thinks is good, can actually be be evil and ungodly, and what a human thinks is evil can be godly and good. St. Paul once persecuted Christians, he suddenly became enlightened, and unforgettably received the Holy Spirit only three days after he stopped persecuting the Christians.
If people like St. Paul when they are conscientously persecuting the Christians, remain convinced that God should be considered an "authentic mirror" of what they conceive to be good, then will never stop doing things like persecuting Christians? If God is an "authentic mirror" of what man considers to be good, then one might say God was one thing when St. Paul was persecuting Christians and became another thing when St. Paul stopped persecuting Christians. If God is an "authentic mirror" of what man considers good, than ome could declare that there are a million different Gods.
True, conscience is based on man's estimate regarding what is in the mind of God with regards to a particular human situation, and therefore conscience is worthy of veneration; yet a man could nevertheless act according to his conscience, and at the same time against the will of God.
Pope Benedict seems to conclude that society's disdain for lengthy hard-to-understand specialized university-level philosophical theological argument re the intersection of reason and Christianity, is a source of "great harm" and danger for society. Still I can imagine how men forgetting about joining their Spirit to the Holy Spirit, and forgetting about succeeding in begging God to grant them a little bit of knowledge re what is in God's mind that is not recorded in scriptures, and instead plunging into many hours of argument regarding the fine points of university level theology, could in and of itself harm society and plunge it into danger.
Sometimes men seem to be saying one thing when in fact their intent is to say another thing. Nevertheless, all persons including high Catholic officials, bear an ethical obligation to be concerned with not just what they are trying to say, but also with what they seem to be saying.
It is a step forward for mankind, that the Roman Catholic Pope, used the words of an Eastern king, as the centerpiece of a speech. Yet I wonder whether he could have chosen words of an Eastern leader that were not spoken at the same time that the given leader unleashed a fiery denunciation of Islam. Perhaps the Pope feels that it is time to get tough with Islam, how tough he should be with Islam is his business. The Pope made an interesting point--bringing to mind something even many brilliant persons have not thought of--by bringing to mind how the Muslim scriptures can be split into two groups, one those that seem to echo earlier teachings found in religions that existed before Islam, and two, those that are not found in earlier religions.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 11:25-26 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
1Co 3:18-20 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Pope Benedict (http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=70993) has aroused wrath in the Muslim world because he used as the centerpiece of his recent address, the philosophy of a medieval King of Constantinople in Turkey Manuel Paleologos (1350-1425), who he quoted as saying that everything new that the Muslim faith has brought to the world is evil. Benedict's address centered on his agreement with the King's contention that forced conversions are ungodly because God is reasonable, and expects men to behave reasonably, and because reasonable men are what is required to convert reasonable unbelievers.
Although Benedict himself did not attack Muslims on the grounds that everything new that the Muslim religion has brought to the world is evil, at the beginning and also at the end of his address, he referenced the medieval King who said this about the Muslims; at the beginning he quoted this king saying this; and throughout his address, Pope Benedict treated this medieval King, Paleologos, as an icon of wisdom.
Thus it is not hard to see why Muslims would be offended by Pope Benedict's remarks; and the explanation given by the German government that the Muslims merely misunderstood Pope Benedict is seems insufficient.
If leaders go about lionizing historical figures who condemned the Muslim religion, all the while quoting the condemnations of the Muslim religion made by these historical figures--even if these leaders center their talks not on the condemnations of Islam that issued from these ancient figures but rather on fine points related to the philosophies of these historical anti-Muslim figures--then one would expect Muslims to become offended.
Perhaps the Pope did not intend to be cozy with Muslims.If Pope Benedict had wished to be diplomatic, he could have gotten the same message across by saying something like: I value how truths made known to man in Christianity are also found in Islam and exert positive impacts through being part of Islam, and, with regards to the doctrines found in Islam that are not a part of Christianity, I hope Muslims can come to realize that if all of the thoughts God has regarding the world were to be put into books, the Vatican library itself would not have enough room for all of these books.
Instead Pope Benedict, while attempting to show that a certain reasonableness, and love of reasonableness are an intrinsic part of God's nature, read several paragraphs that could be interpreted as manifesting his opposition to the idea, that most of God's thoughts words and actions are not recorded in human scriptures.
The fact remains, that many persons have sensed while reading Isaiah, and Psalms, and the gospel of St. John, the divine inspiration of at least portions of these books of the Bible. In these Books we read:
Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to usward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Psa 139:17-18 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The fact we are told that God is hid, means the writers of these scriptures, whom we estimate to be divinely inspired, want us to think of God as being partially hid.
My estimate is that what the world needs now, is for the religious of the world to all come to realize that the scriptures of their religions only present a part of the mind of God, and to proceed to live in peace friendliness and neighborliness like good little professor's kids from tolerant liberal university neighborhoods. My estimate is that in the past the world has plunged into fruitless unnecessary violence because its leaders and people have failed to meditate upon how the mind of God is greater than any book inspired by God. Yet Pope Benedict in his speech, delivers words that many would understandably interpret, as opposed to the idea that the mind of God is greater and larger than human books about God.
Pope Benedict's words give the impression that his doctrine is that God should be considered to be an "authentic mirror" of what we humans believe is true and good. Yet Catholic and Protestant Christians throughout the ages, have believed that what a human thinks is good, can actually be be evil and ungodly, and what a human thinks is evil can be godly and good. St. Paul once persecuted Christians, he suddenly became enlightened, and unforgettably received the Holy Spirit only three days after he stopped persecuting the Christians.
If people like St. Paul when they are conscientously persecuting the Christians, remain convinced that God should be considered an "authentic mirror" of what they conceive to be good, then will never stop doing things like persecuting Christians? If God is an "authentic mirror" of what man considers to be good, then one might say God was one thing when St. Paul was persecuting Christians and became another thing when St. Paul stopped persecuting Christians. If God is an "authentic mirror" of what man considers good, than ome could declare that there are a million different Gods.
True, conscience is based on man's estimate regarding what is in the mind of God with regards to a particular human situation, and therefore conscience is worthy of veneration; yet a man could nevertheless act according to his conscience, and at the same time against the will of God.
Pope Benedict seems to conclude that society's disdain for lengthy hard-to-understand specialized university-level philosophical theological argument re the intersection of reason and Christianity, is a source of "great harm" and danger for society. Still I can imagine how men forgetting about joining their Spirit to the Holy Spirit, and forgetting about succeeding in begging God to grant them a little bit of knowledge re what is in God's mind that is not recorded in scriptures, and instead plunging into many hours of argument regarding the fine points of university level theology, could in and of itself harm society and plunge it into danger.
Sometimes men seem to be saying one thing when in fact their intent is to say another thing. Nevertheless, all persons including high Catholic officials, bear an ethical obligation to be concerned with not just what they are trying to say, but also with what they seem to be saying.
It is a step forward for mankind, that the Roman Catholic Pope, used the words of an Eastern king, as the centerpiece of a speech. Yet I wonder whether he could have chosen words of an Eastern leader that were not spoken at the same time that the given leader unleashed a fiery denunciation of Islam. Perhaps the Pope feels that it is time to get tough with Islam, how tough he should be with Islam is his business. The Pope made an interesting point--bringing to mind something even many brilliant persons have not thought of--by bringing to mind how the Muslim scriptures can be split into two groups, one those that seem to echo earlier teachings found in religions that existed before Islam, and two, those that are not found in earlier religions.
***
I suppose what the Pope was trying to say, is that the Muslim world is not concerned enough with regards to what their mental reasoning tells them are the characteristics and will of a good God. The Pope may be extraordinarily perceptive and correct to note that significant numbers of Muslims do not pay enough attention to what their mind tells them are the characteristics of a good God; but the best antidote for this is not to deny that there are hidden thoughts of God, the best remedy is not to deny that man should follow his conscience while realizing that his conscience and God's will are not always the same thing; the best solution is not to single out Muslims for criticism with regards to this fault.
The non-Christian world will succeed in refining its notion of what God's characteristics are and what his will is by understanding that: a) God has thoughts not recorded in even inspired books about God; b) humans compared to God are incredibly stupid; c) what is a right action for the one and only God, can be a wrong action for a human; d) what is a right action for a human can be a wrong action for the one and only God; e) a man should pay heed to a conscience based on sinless reasoning processes; f) conscience and God's will are not necessarily the same thing; g) wisdom consists of understanding that the stupid average human mind's way of looking at things is different from the supremely brilliant and intelligent one and only God's way of looking at things.
It is true that there are Muslims who fail to realize how decisions of conscience based on faulty reasoning processes such as willful ignorance and deliberate intellectual laziness, are not acceptable decisions of conscience; but it is also true that there are Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, theists, deists, folk-religionists, agnostics and atheists who fail to understand this same point. If the idea is to show that consciences based on jealousy, envy, hatred, and arrogance are not acceptable consciences, then why not go ahead and just say that? If the concept is lifted from someone else they can always be credited.
Both Christian and Muslim people realize, that their own human mind, is no equal of God's mind, and so therefore, what their reasoning tells them a good God should be, is different from what the good and perfect God actually is. Such is intrinsic to being a Christian or a Muslim.
In Christendom and also in the Islamic world, there are millions of persons who carry on in their faiths, even though what that which is average in their own mind tells them a good God should be on the one hand, and what scripture and religion and their own mind when in an inspired or especially perceptive state tell them God is, are two different things. To tell these Christians and Muslims that they must make a God out of what that which is average in the human mind says a good God should be, and to tell them to reject the God that scripture and the higher parts of their own mind reveals to them, is like telling them to abandon their faiths.
Christianity and best I can tell Islam also have at their basis, this notion that us humans are foolish, beknighted by our sins, and so therefore what the uninspired human mind thinks of as God's characteristics and God's will, differs from what in reality are God's characteristics and God's will. Many Christians and Muslims understand that the limited human mind's comprehension of what God is, can with time mature and grow more accurate.
***
Pope Benedict represents the Catholic branch of Christendom; but if God is as Pope benedict says an "authentic mirror" of what the human mind in its humdrum state imagines to be God, then why would anyone be a Christian? The God of the Christians, has high behavioral standards, He values self-denial, He punishes sinners. If God is an "authentic mirror" of what the human mind in its humdrum state imagines to be God, then as opposed to being Christian, the common-sensical thing to do would seem to be to believe that the good God, is not the God of the Christians, but rather is a God who lets his devotee do whatever he feels like and unconditionally accepts said devotee.
@2006 David Virgil Hobbs
posted by David Virgil at 4:40 AM
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